The State of Deepworld: Spring 2015

mikelaurencemikelaurence New York CityMember, Administrator Posts: 4,953
Some thoughts on our current status and where we're headed.

http://blog.deepworldgame.com/post/119907396021/the-state-of-deepworld-spring-2015

Plus, let's have a discussion about moneys!

This is likely to get a little contentious, so I will add that I'm particularly interested to hear which of these ideas are most repulsive to you. Like, maybe the purchasable Loot Crate thing is the worst, but you're happy about the Sponsorships, and you're okay-but-slightly-annoyed with the VIP thing. That will help inform what we choose to bring about, if any of them.

None of these ideas are set in stone yet. That's why this discussion is here, and we appreciate your feedback as always!
Post edited by mikelaurence on
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Comments

  • NinjaWarriorNinjaWarrior TeufortMember Posts: 3,290
    edited May 2015
    I see the ocean= OCEAN BIOME <:-P and SPACE?????????????
  • stingerbee5000stingerbee5000 In a hive.Member, Arbiter Posts: 2,911
    Super excited. I am sorely sorry I haven't been able to support the game as much as I've played it but I hope I can at the first chance I have.
  • mikelaurencemikelaurence New York CityMember, Administrator Posts: 4,953
    Lyven said:

    Reedit:
    TBH, the game is becoming a pay to win game, since you have to pay to get an exclusive order of the sun, you can buy loot in the shop, etc. Im quite saddened that revenue is quite cut short for you guys but maybe there is another solution to this.

    I think that youll have to improve the ingame community of the game itself. A lot of people have quit due to confusing starts, being scammed, being greifed, etc. All these negative points in the game as well as stuff not in the ToS being exploited by these uncanny people have to be crushed. A more detailed and helpful tutorial would certainly make newbies more compelled to playing the game. Implimenting multiple trading system will definetly cut down the scamming rate and will prompt less people into quitting the game. Allowing people to choose the people they want to build in their protectors is a goood thing too. Implimenting these long time asked implimentations to deepworld will certainly make less players quit and more interested into spending into a game that is more community friendly.

    You guys seem to be getting the fact that more rares mean more people which means more people buying stuff but the only thing this does is making people already playing this game as well as the rich people in deepworld more compled to playing this game, but forgetting the "middle(people who can buy in the shop moderately) and low(people who barely buy anything in the shop)" class of deepworld. Improving the community of deepworld overall will make the game sound a good game and people will be more compled into purchasing items into a game that is overall friendly and safe from crimes such as greifing and scamming.

    I understand where you're coming from. However, the point of my post is that we've focused so little on the high spenders that it's affected our revenue to the point to where we've had to take other jobs.

    In every retention metric, Deepworld KILLS most other games. Where we fall flat is player spending. Most successful (and long-lasting) F2P games make the majority (literally > 50%) of their revenue from a small group of high-spending players. We're nowhere near that. My hope is that an exclusive order (which is just an icon next to your name, after all) with some perks (the main one of which can be earned through in-game play), amongst other things, is not going too far. But maybe it is... hence this discussion.

    But anyway, further to my point, we still plan to add player-specific protectors, multi-trading, and other stuff like that soon. But unfortunately, it will have a negligible impact on revenue and retention. I am 100% certain of this because every other small-but-much-desired feature we've added has also had no impact. The only thing that works is incentivizing people to spend money, whether through new exclusive items, or literally asking them (sales, banners, etc.)
  • mikelaurencemikelaurence New York CityMember, Administrator Posts: 4,953
    Follow-up: I guess I'm also interested to hear which of these ideas are most repulsive. Like, maybe the purchasable Loot Crate thing is the worst, but you're happy about the Sponsorships, and you're okay-but-slightly-annoyed with the VIP thing. That will help inform what we choose to bring about, if any of them.
  • SmasheroidSmasheroid Hi there! I shouldn't have any type of explosive device in my possession!Member Posts: 601
    Woah, what biomes are those?
  • LyvenLyven Shuttered PalaceMember Posts: 6,453
    So Quinn and Frank left deepworld?
  • Jmonster1Jmonster1 Building. Building what? Building a building house. Whats in the building house? BuildingsMember Posts: 559
    I can't disagree with these ideas at all, we just need to take in the exchange rate. 1000 dollars, for me, is 11900 bucks, not stuff I can easily spend at all, but I understand where you are coming from.
  • mikelaurencemikelaurence New York CityMember, Administrator Posts: 4,953
    Jmonster1 said:

    I can't disagree with these ideas at all, we just need to take in the exchange rate. 1000 dollars, for me, is 11900 bucks, not stuff I can easily spend at all, but I understand where you are coming from.

    Yeah, $1000 is quite high. I'm definitely open to changing those tiers around.

    For those interested in the business side of F2P, here is a chart of what I'm talking about:
    Screenshot 2015-05-25 23.28.54.png
    1472 x 1031 - 261K
  • ClueboeClueboe The AoD Headquarters... Wherever it is...Member, Arbiter Posts: 2,299
    edited May 2015
    Just having a loot crate by itself without a detailed description of its contents would be a bad idea. One major turnoff for me is having to spend money on an item you aren't guaranteed to get.

    A better option would be to include a list of all the possible loot drops from the box, like what was done in Six-Guns and (I think) Infinity Blade. That way, the crate has a more meaningful image than "you might get a rare item."
  • mikelaurencemikelaurence New York CityMember, Administrator Posts: 4,953
    Clueboe said:

    Just having a loot crate by itself without a detailed description of its contents would be a bad idea. One major turnoff for me is having to spend money on an item you aren't guaranteed to get.

    A better option would be to include a list of all the possible loot drops from the box, like what was done in Six-Guns and (I think) Infinity Blade. That way, the crate has a more meaningful image than "you might get a rare item."

    Totally. When we redo the loot system (next month or two), item drop categories will be clearly marked in the codex (rare, very rare, ultra rare, etc.) And we can summarize them so you know what's possible to get.
  • stingerbee5000stingerbee5000 In a hive.Member, Arbiter Posts: 2,911
    Deplore: loot crates- I've always hated those, they never felt right and I always felt like I was being exploited. Plus they ruin the immersion and the fact this is post ruin- it just... Doesn't resonate.

    Ok with: VIPs- sound great although a little overpowered but I mean I guess if you spent $1000 wow. As long as it's balanced so the lesser spenders still have a cance- by all means yes

    VERY EXPENCIVE ITEMS- as long as they aren't too overpowered sure
    Hard to think of an example though that would be worth it yet equal...
  • Xx_Waffles_xXXx_Waffles_xX [Deleted]Member Posts: 675
    I am quite amused at how much potential this game will have as it grows not only financially, but also as a group. As for the possible new orders and exclusives, it will definitely reach out to that percentage of players who have a little extra change in their pockets. I also have a question regarding tapjoy; how does it work? Do they pay you guys for every ad engaged in per player or what? If you were to say, nerf tapjoy, do yo u think it would be worth losing that monetization and possibly encouraging more players to straight out purchase crowns? Since the game seems to be struggling financially, I think that as a community, we should start promoting the game as a whole and engaging audiences toward all the features Deep world offers through YouTube, Twitch, etc. Possibly making some features cost more and creating features that cost quite an extensive amount of cash seems to be a good idea as to generating more money from newer players (especially the "expensive ones") as a way to allow them to get that extra JumpStart into the game.
  • mikelaurencemikelaurence New York CityMember, Administrator Posts: 4,953
    edited May 2015
    Jmonster1 said:

    I can't disagree with these ideas at all, we just need to take in the exchange rate. 1000 dollars, for me, is 11900 bucks, not stuff I can easily spend at all, but I understand where you are coming from.

    Follow-up: I did some research on what other games' highest VIP level is at, seems like $250-$300 is the consensus. So let's start the discussion around that level (updated the blog post).
  • Xx_Waffles_xXXx_Waffles_xX [Deleted]Member Posts: 675
    edited May 2015
    Some ideas for in game shop items and such:
    1. Possible brainwIne-like item that gives 5-10 skill points in one shot (useful for newer players that need to level up)
    2. Biome specific accessories:(These retain to the ones shown above)
    2a.Rebreather for ocean biomes-(Can't check if its already in the crown shop, but if so, raise price when biome is available.
    2b. Helmet for moon/whatever biome- Make it cost some, but helps player last longer without deprivation of oxygen, etc
    3c. ??? For plant biome- Perhaps make the biome toxic, put up an accessory that does similar to above. Another idea would be to create exotic bulbs that can only be placed in these biomes with the use a specific accessory.
    3. Perhaps make the above 3 biomes True premium worlds as a little treat for those who buy premium. (Those who wish to buy these biomes also have to be premium)
    4. Host competitions for premium only players or make players purchase a pass.
  • blackbirdblackbird At the Mountains of MadnessMember Posts: 69
    Looking at your big spenders chart...do you have any demographics metrics on who is spending the $$? I'm not sure what info is really available to you.
  • blackbirdblackbird At the Mountains of MadnessMember Posts: 69
    Everything that's been suggested is only adding to the game for the paying players, rather than detracting from the free players. Especially with removing restrictions on free players. A developer has to eat, and Chipotle isn't cheap. None of it looks repulsive to me.
  • NerevarineNerevarine Our reports showed a massive anomaly in the space-time continuum...Member Posts: 3,599
    Wow! The biomes looks really great!
    Let me guess:
    1. Jungle
    2. Lunar/Space
    3. Ocean
  • toadlovertoadlover Applying Woturr to the Urrth, to prevent the Ayerr from stoking the Phyrre.Member, Arbiter Posts: 6,424
    Personally, I don't find any of the ideas to be too awful. Especially for a growing indie game, big spenders really are key to the survival to the game, as those graphs show. If it means giving boosts to people who pay, that does seem somewhat fair, as they are what causes the game to thrive.

    As for a few ideas that could be added to the crown store to promote more money spending:

    Afterburner: Yes, this already exists, but with some balancing, people would certainly use this witout it being too overpowered. Perhaps it can't be used until at least one world machine is repaired.

    Another accessory extender: With all the new skills being added, another extension to the accessories bar will be necessary. If one were to wield all accessories that add a unique effect, there is actually already not enough space at full stamina with the current extension. Another extension at a cheaper price would be helpful.

    De-crafting: This could allow a player to break down crafted items into their crafting materials. To keep this on a per-player basis, this could maybe be a directive for butler bots, in which the player drags the desired item onto the bot for it to be degraded. To add some balancing, the degredation of items that would yield rare items would be limited to only a few (~10) per day.

    Quest Pass: At the moment at least, quests progress fairly linearly. If you were to get stuck on a quest in one of the 3 lines, you would be unable to progress beyond it. This would allow you to skip a quest (and perhaps collect a fraction of the reward), and continue down the quest line.

    +50% to quest/achievement rewards: This would aid in leveling up faster as well as additional rewards for beating loot-yielding quests. (Bonus percentage could change for balancing. This should be retroactive too.)

    Android discounts: Once androids begin accepting shillings for more things, perhaps there can be an in-game purchase that reduces the amount of shillings that need to be spent for an android for goods and services.
  • Xx_Waffles_xXXx_Waffles_xX [Deleted]Member Posts: 675
    edited May 2015
    blackbird said:

    Everything that's been suggested is only adding to the game for the paying players, rather than detracting from the free players. Especially with removing restrictions on free players. A developer has to eat, and Chipotle isn't cheap. None of it looks repulsive to me.

    My perspective of this is that it should be a fair trade. The devs make and improve the game. The players come, (assuming they pay) pay for certain features, and then bam you have a fair trade. If they become so strict to the point that non prem players are forced to stay in one public world with others, there would be less players/consumers and the revs would be short a few customers. Now applying these hypothetical scenarios, it would seem unfair if the devs cut down on the freedoms of free players as the devs will also be short "a few" bucks. There should always be a balance to the point where the producer(devs) and the consumers(us players) meet and therefore both become happy. The end. Good night.
    Edit: However in this case of the app, it would seem fair if the devs added a few expenses that only apply for items/access that don't apply to the main purpose of the game, but just for leisure and special permissions relying on the sole decision of said player(s)
  • p1nkbr0p1nkbr0 Like, totally, brahMember, Arbiter Posts: 5,033
    I hope I can hide my sun ranking... I've spent too much money...
  • mikelaurencemikelaurence New York CityMember, Administrator Posts: 4,953
    p1nkbr0 said:

    I hope I can hide my sun ranking... I've spent too much money...

    That's a good point. We can make it optional as far as appearing on the codex (and you can choose a different or no order for your in-game icon).
  • EverywhenEverywhen pressing the comment button makes all comments on activity disappear - debator 2k17Member, Arbiter Posts: 4,677
    edited May 2015

    Some thoughts on our current status and where we're headed.

    http://blog.deepworldgame.com/post/119907396021/the-state-of-deepworld-spring-2015

    Plus, let's have a discussion about moneys!

    This is likely to get a little contentious, so I will add that I'm particularly interested to hear which of these ideas are most repulsive to you. Like, maybe the purchasable Loot Crate thing is the worst, but you're happy about the Sponsorships, and you're okay-but-slightly-annoyed with the VIP thing. That will help inform what we choose to bring about, if any of them.

    None of these ideas are set in stone yet. That's why this discussion is here, and we appreciate your feedback as always!

    Is VIP total amount spent?
    I feel that the higher ranks may be a little OP, but then again, $250 is a lot.
    What is the raffle?

    OP but not OP shop items:
    Onyx Target teleporters
    Infinite Portable Teleporter
    Jetpack speed steriod item
    blackbird said:

    Looking at your big spenders chart...do you have any demographics metrics on who is spending the $$? I'm not sure what info is really available to you.

    I'm fairly sure I may have kinda put easily over $100 into Deepworld since 2013.
    Lyven said:

    White Teleporter
    Cost: 250 Crowns
    -Allows you to place an orange teleporter, recoloured to white that allows you to "link" you to other worlds.

    Onyx target teleporters were going to do this. Never appeared in game for some reason.
    Lisa also once said they were hardcoded items, so that probably wouldn't be viable for player use.

    EDIT: Realised I forgot about loot crates:

    As someone who primarily builds, this doesn't bother me overly.
    But also as someone who's looted far too many Gunpowder at lv 10 luck, I can see people becoming disillusioned by what would quickly become a pay for loot.
    That sort of system could have the potential to create a rift between those who can afford to pay for loot (and hold onto it), and those who can't and therefore have to struggle along with what they can find. After finding that, because the items are worth less to the players who can afford to purchase the items, it would make trading a lot harder for them.
    Idk, in an ideal world, all trading would be shillings based, which would work pretty well IMO. Kill some brains, earn some shillings.
    Spend some time digging, sell resources for shillings,
    need resources? buy them for shillings.
    Want that rare item? Shillings!!!
    Maybe I should convert the trading post to shilling based

    Post edited by Everywhen on
  • JaydogJaydog A Land Down UnderMember Posts: 27
    The thought of a 'VIP' system may work however it should be something that is convenient, but not too overpowered as this would likely result in a community where only the big spenders will be the best players and the ones who choose not to spend will be doomed to a 'lower class' society, or so to speak.

    As for purchase-able loot crates. I believe that this may not be something worth implementing unless it is a very good and trustworthy system. Nothing pains me more than paying for something with a 'chance' to win, only to get something rather lackluster in return...

    Very expensive items is something that im still not sure about. Yes, these items may be worth the price. But would these items be TOO good? We don't want players running around with incredibly strong items and making it seem almost unfair for everyone else.

    This whole system, to my understanding, was to reward those who pay money ingame as thanks for their support, whilst also creating a way for the devs to recieve more support money. That being said this system should do exactly that, instead of making the other players feel inferior like other games have done.

    In general i want to see this game thrive and i hope the devs can get the money they need to continue developing this great game :D
  • MidoriMidori Member Posts: 350

    Some thoughts on our current status and where we're headed.

    http://blog.deepworldgame.com/post/119907396021/the-state-of-deepworld-spring-2015

    Plus, let's have a discussion about moneys!

    This is likely to get a little contentious, so I will add that I'm particularly interested to hear which of these ideas are most repulsive to you. Like, maybe the purchasable Loot Crate thing is the worst, but you're happy about the Sponsorships, and you're okay-but-slightly-annoyed with the VIP thing. That will help inform what we choose to bring about, if any of them.

    None of these ideas are set in stone yet. That's why this discussion is here, and we appreciate your feedback as always!

    Mike I support VIP and all stuff for big spenders, in path of exile there are supporter packs that works great with ''special forum icon-frame''and ''item named by you that looks like you tell us''
    I also think ''blue player glow'' what is cheap effect that you can steal from crystals would sell good
    but I reccomend also adding ''gift opinion'' for things like worlds etc or make them trade-able
    somebody have to buy them and you should not care who It was as you need to care only about ''somebody bought It yay''
    This make good money for no effort and friends can help each other ingame
    I was on non-premium minecraft server where one guy bought 500dollars worth stuff for his online-friends that he barely met
    It works and support player-trading


  • SigzhSigzh At St. Lamia, beating stuff with my 6*sMember Posts: 327
    edited May 2015
    (VIP Btw) Will previous purchases of crowns add to this on? Because I know for a fact I spent a lot of money buying crowns and it would be sad if it didn't count..

    EDIT: If anyone didn't get it, I meant that do purchases before this Order of the Sun VIP implementation count towards the higher ranks of it? I know I have bought more than 25$ worth of crowns, and it would be a waste to not be on use of it.
    Post edited by Sigzh on
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