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Disturbing in-game chat.

AMWhyAMWhy http://forums.deepworldgame.com/discussion/27517/the-kepler-colony-evacuationMember, Arbiter Posts: 1,182
There was some very disturbing chat in Times Square just now. One player was making very racist remarks about the Chinese. I reported him right away. However what was also disturbing was two players, one a ruby player ranked in the top 50 player list, who were claiming that the racist player was @Gilby

It very clearly was not gilby as the level of diction between the two players was a world apart. However this was repeatedly said in a full market world. Any new players there may now associate gilby with this racist fool. The problem is that reporting a player for falsely accusing a player of being someone else isn't a crime. There was nothing I could do but refute the claim.

@Simplin was also in the world and he and I agreed that we need moderators in the game. Trusted players with the ability to put a stop to events like this quickly and at the time. Even if reporting were possible here, the time for judgement and punishment to be issued is too slow for the player to know what they said exactly to be banned.

An obvious start would be Sirentist and Millicent: respected players both in terms of I game stats and behaviour. Of course two would not be enough. Something needs to be done.

Aside from the damage to Gilby's reputation, any new players there are unlikely to want to hang around a game where racism seems to be acceptable.
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Comments

  • CloudxCloudCloudxCloud EarthMember Posts: 684
    edited November 2015

    Cant we just hunt down and ban anyone who is under 13?

    We wouldn't want to ban half of our player population. joking

    I agree that we need moderators, and there are plenty of candidates. The only problem I have with it is who becomes one. Moderators should be strictly picked from their behavior. Secondly how well will the moderators be moderated? In the end we still need some and we can have some without a net loss.
  • awesomeo13awesomeo13 New york, New YorkMember Posts: 5,951

    Cant we just hunt down and ban anyone who is under 13?

    We wouldn't want to ban half of our player population. joking

    I agree that we need moderators, and there are plenty of candidates. The only problem I have with it is who becomes one. Moderators should be strictly picked from their behavior. Secondly how well will the moderators be moderated? In the end we still need some and we can have some without a net loss.
    We'll just moderate the moderators with more moderators for the moment! (Lols)

    However we do need to go through a long process to have them, and that might put a strain on the Devs even more.



  • AMWhyAMWhy http://forums.deepworldgame.com/discussion/27517/the-kepler-colony-evacuationMember, Arbiter Posts: 1,182
    Mod powers should be the ability to mute a player temporarily (up to 1 hour?)
    This should be given to Sirentist and Millicent instantly. They've proved themselves enough.

    Who else is outstanding as a clear moderator?
  • Wonder_melon_Wonder_melon_ DANK MAY MAYS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤMember Posts: 1,361
    I could be a moderator. I mess around a LOT but still I'm not afraid to enforce rules.
  • lisalisa ice cream parlorAdministrator Posts: 5,129
    edited November 2015
    Ok so you are angry because someone accused your friend of something you don't believe that they did? It sucks when that happens, but there isn't anything anyone can do. Let's say we had in game moderators. They wouldn't be able to see if it was that person or not so they could do absolutely nothing in that instance nor should they. People say things we don't like all the time. That's life unfortunately. Just because you say it isn't someone doesn't mean you are correct. Just because someone else says something different it does not mean they are correct. Worrying about what a new player might think of a random other player they don't know really matters none.
    Post edited by lisa on
  • Wonder_melon_Wonder_melon_ DANK MAY MAYS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤMember Posts: 1,361
    What if there were like moderators but there were like secret ones. But you'd need a lot of them.
  • lisalisa ice cream parlorAdministrator Posts: 5,129

    What if there were like moderators but there were like secret ones. But you'd need a lot of them.

    I guess I still don't know what could be done in a he said she said situation like the one above? Maybe I am missing something though?
  • Wonder_melon_Wonder_melon_ DANK MAY MAYS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤMember Posts: 1,361
    Yeah that is true @lisa but chat logs? Maybe, I don't know.
  • SirentistSirentist Member, Moderator, Arbiter Posts: 8,710
    lisa said:

    What if there were like moderators but there were like secret ones. But you'd need a lot of them.

    I guess I still don't know what could be done in a he said she said situation like the one above? Maybe I am missing something though?
    It would only make sense if the "no calling people out for bad behavior" rule carried over from forum into the game. Then I guess if someone on a world is totally just trash-talking someone else, then the trash-talker could get a warning or a temporary global mute or something. But ... the rule doesn't carry over. So, people kind of have the right to say whatever nasty things they want about other players, short of violating the obscenity rules.
  • CloudxCloudCloudxCloud EarthMember Posts: 684
    edited November 2015
    There's a difference between rumors and trash talking versus plain harassment. People are allowed to say as they want, as long as it is not plain harassment, or hate speech.

    If two people are cursing a trash talking then both will recieve a mute, trying to look into " who started it " is too much hassle and both are cursing and trash talking. If one trys to walk away but the other keeps going, the one who keeps trying will be muted.

    EDIT: Sorry got side tracked. For this it is all rumors, it is not harassment because no one is going straight to gilby and trying to hurt him with words. It is not hate speech because they are simply calling gilby a racist. Being racist is hate speech.

    Imagine this, if a group of girls gossiped and spread rumors about a teacher being a racist. Are the girls saying hate speech or harassing this teacher? And should they get punished for saying what they think?
    Post edited by CloudxCloud on
  • lisalisa ice cream parlorAdministrator Posts: 5,129
    I don't think you have a clear grasp of the definitions of hate speech or harassment. Neither fit here. Someone said something that others didn't like and didn't agree with. Welcome to life. You don't get muted or banned because not everyone agrees with you. Also, not one of you knows for sure who the rude person actually is so you are all operating under assumptions.
  • Wonder_melon_Wonder_melon_ DANK MAY MAYS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤMember Posts: 1,361
    lisa said:

    I don't think you have a clear grasp of the definitions of hate speech or harassment. Neither fit here. Someone said something that others didn't like and didn't agree with. Welcome to life. You don't get muted or banned because not everyone agrees with you. Also, not one of you knows for sure who the rude person actually is so you are all operating under assumptions.

    I don't think that could've been said any better

  • CloudxCloudCloudxCloud EarthMember Posts: 684
    lisa said:

    I don't think you have a clear grasp of the definitions of hate speech or harassment. Neither fit here. Someone said something that others didn't like and didn't agree with. Welcome to life. You don't get muted or banned because not everyone agrees with you. Also, not one of you knows for sure who the rude person actually is so you are all operating under assumptions.

    By " you " you do mean @AMWhy ?
  • Wonder_melon_Wonder_melon_ DANK MAY MAYS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤMember Posts: 1,361
    @cloudxcloud she could be talking to all of us ? Probably not, more likely you or amwhy
  • lisalisa ice cream parlorAdministrator Posts: 5,129

    lisa said:

    I don't think you have a clear grasp of the definitions of hate speech or harassment. Neither fit here. Someone said something that others didn't like and didn't agree with. Welcome to life. You don't get muted or banned because not everyone agrees with you. Also, not one of you knows for sure who the rude person actually is so you are all operating under assumptions.

    By " you " you do mean @AMWhy ?
    Sorry I should have quoted. I mean you, cloud. What you describe in your edit is still not harassment or hate speech. Because someone says something mean does not mean they are harassing someone.
  • lisalisa ice cream parlorAdministrator Posts: 5,129
    lisa said:

    lisa said:

    I don't think you have a clear grasp of the definitions of hate speech or harassment. Neither fit here. Someone said something that others didn't like and didn't agree with. Welcome to life. You don't get muted or banned because not everyone agrees with you. Also, not one of you knows for sure who the rude person actually is so you are all operating under assumptions.

    By " you " you do mean @AMWhy ?
    Sorry I should have quoted. I mean you, cloud, and amwhy. What you describe in your edit is still not harassment or hate speech either. Because someone says something mean does not mean they are harassing someone.
  • CloudxCloudCloudxCloud EarthMember Posts: 684
    I see, then how to you describe harassment and hate speech? You're right, just because I say something mean wether truthful or just mud slinging isn't harassment. I draw the line when it is aggravated.

    Harassment, trying to personally upset someone with words. Hate speech, bringing up a topic to offend or insult others.
  • DianeDiane Member Posts: 367
    I could see how having moderators in the game could be helpful in the situation described in the first post of this discussion, though. If someone was spouting racist nonsense, a moderator could be right there in the moment to at least put a stop to that.Without having to make a judgment on who is telling the truth or not about someone's reputation.
  • FallersFallers noisnemid esrever a nIMember Posts: 1,244

    I could be a moderator. I mess around a LOT but still I'm not afraid to enforce rules.

    Someone who can't even follow some basic rules shouldn't enforce rules.
  • Wonder_melon_Wonder_melon_ DANK MAY MAYS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤMember Posts: 1,361
    Too many people judge me lol.
  • AMWhyAMWhy http://forums.deepworldgame.com/discussion/27517/the-kepler-colony-evacuationMember, Arbiter Posts: 1,182
    edited November 2015
    lisa said:

    Ok so you are angry because someone accused your friend of something you don't believe that they did? It sucks when that happens, but there isn't anything anyone can do. Let's say we had in game moderators. They wouldn't be able to see if it was that person or not so they could do absolutely nothing in that instance nor should they. People say things we don't like all the time. That's life unfortunately. Just because you say it isn't someone doesn't mean you are correct. Just because someone else says something different it does not mean they are correct. Worrying about what a new player might think of a random other player they don't know really matters none.

    While I speak to gilby in game sometimes, I'd hardly call him a friend. Instead, he is a well known, respected player who always speaks cordially and acts as we would like all players to act. The racist player spoke in slang as young players tend to do, as well as spewing forth his dislike for the Chinese and praise for the Greeks. Unless you are suggesting that gilby is schizophrenic, it was obviously not him.

    Regardless, you are very right that even with moderator abilities, there's not a lot that could be done. The accusers didn't directly do anything wrong. However just a mod being there could have reigned in the accusers tongues. In general, just having a mod present would be enough to improve the quality of chat.

    Edit: changed to remove slightly patronising comment towards Lisa.
    Post edited by AMWhy on
  • Wonder_melon_Wonder_melon_ DANK MAY MAYS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤMember Posts: 1,361
    Like a robot moderator or soemthin. You know like that could moderate all chats at once. And it would keep track of how much a person swears or insults other people. And once someone gets to a number of points they can't talk for awhile but it keeps record of how many points you get. And it would let you only chat for so long at a time in one day. Then after awhile without swearing or anything they could chat however much they want? I don't know just an idea...
  • AMWhyAMWhy http://forums.deepworldgame.com/discussion/27517/the-kepler-colony-evacuationMember, Arbiter Posts: 1,182

    Like a robot moderator or soemthin. You know like that could moderate all chats at once. And it would keep track of how much a person swears or insults other people. And once someone gets to a number of points they can't talk for awhile but it keeps record of how many points you get. And it would let you only chat for so long at a time in one day. Then after awhile without swearing or anything they could chat however much they want? I don't know just an idea...

    While this is a good idea it would be difficult to code. The reporting system as it is does this, more or less.

    The problem is the other unsavoury conversations that go on unchecked as there is nothing inherently wrong with them. Having a mod present would at least make those players think twice about what they say.

    For example I quite often see lots of euphamisms used in chat that can't be flagged. Not really a problem as mute works. But then you get young players asking "What does bashing the bishop mean?" Which then causes a barrage of innuendos to spew forth into the chat.

    Again, if a mod was there, those players would think twice.
  • SirentistSirentist Member, Moderator, Arbiter Posts: 8,710
    AMWhy said:


    For example I quite often see lots of euphamisms used in chat that can't be flagged. Not really a problem as mute works. But then you get young players asking "What does bashing the bishop mean?" Which then causes a barrage of innuendos to spew forth into the chat.

    This doesn't affect the argument for or against in-game moderators, but I'm pretty sure most of those innocent-seeming players asking those kinds of leading questions are just alts of more-or-less established players who either like stir up dirty conversation in chat, or just like the idea of making people uncomfortable by pretending to be little kids asking about taboo subjects, lol!

    On a related note, there's also at least one well-established player who likes to tell people to do Google image searches for specific keywords. While the keywords themselves escape the swear filter and aren't official grounds for reporting, such searches inevitably result in screens full of super nasty stuff.
  • awesomeo13awesomeo13 New york, New YorkMember Posts: 5,951
    Sirentist said:

    AMWhy said:


    For example I quite often see lots of euphamisms used in chat that can't be flagged. Not really a problem as mute works. But then you get young players asking "What does bashing the bishop mean?" Which then causes a barrage of innuendos to spew forth into the chat.

    This doesn't affect the argument for or against in-game moderators, but I'm pretty sure most of those innocent-seeming players asking those kinds of leading questions are just alts of more-or-less established players who either like stir up dirty conversation in chat, or just like the idea of making people uncomfortable by pretending to be little kids asking about taboo subjects, lol!

    On a related note, there's also at least one well-established player who likes to tell people to do Google image searches for specific keywords. While the keywords themselves escape the swear filter and aren't official grounds for reporting, such searches inevitably result in screens full of super nasty stuff.
    Like what do they say, like "Look up 'Banana' for something cool!" Or say some kind of warning like "I found this weird thing, its "interesting", but also NSFW, 'Banana'."
  • DianeDiane Member Posts: 367
    edited November 2015
    Sirentist said:

    On a related note, there's also at least one well-established player who likes to tell people to do Google image searches for specific keywords. While the keywords themselves escape the swear filter and aren't official grounds for reporting, such searches inevitably result in screens full of super nasty stuff.

    omg I've seen that guy! Turns out the word was some medical term and the search gave back all these pictures of inside-out bladders or something. It was awful! and no he did not give a "NSFW" warning, lol
    Now I know to be careful of anything that guy says. I was fooled once ... never again! I feel bad for any young kid who falls for it :(

    A moderator in the world could have put a stop to it. Perhaps if moderators had very limited powers...like a temporary power to mute, for up to an hour, even that would make a difference.
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